Ancient & World Coin Geek

Import Restrictions Again - Italy & Sicily

2010-04-17T08:10:00.000-07:00

Greetings all,

I urge you to take the time to go to the ACCG website if you haven't already and send in your fax using the ACCG's *FREE* fax wizard to the U.S. State Dept, urging them to not restrict the importation of Greek and Roman coins. You can do it here:

http://www.vcoins.com/fax/

As some of you may know, I am active in the Republican Party of Wisconsin and several years back, fought to pass a party resolution upholding collectors rights. What was unique about this resolution (from a Republican activist's point of view) was normally office holders will not take a stand on newly proposed resolutions coming before the floor but congressmen Paul Ryan, Tom Petri and Mark Green supported it (it is mentioned briefly on Petri's website) and it passed by a voice vote of about 75% of the delegates present.

Sample letters and talking points can be found here:

http://www.vcoins.com/fax/sampleletters.asp

http://www.vcoins.com/fax/talkingpoints.asp

So you don't have to be an expert coin collector to write a letter, nor be a good letter writer. Just sign up at the Fax Wizard, go through the steps, and the hit the buttons and PRESTO! You will have sent a letter to the State Department asking them to not restrict the importation of Greek and Roman coins for U.S. ancient coin hobbyists.

I just ask that you keep your language logical, polite and respectful. You are writing to a career diplomat, not your congressman. We want to win over, not offend these people. Let's keep this great educational hobby legal and free of government intrusion!

After you use the Fax Wizard you may give a donation if you want, but YOU DO NOT HAVE TO! Also, if you wish to own your own ancient coin you can of course contact me :-) or you can go to the Vcoins ancient coin mall and buy a coin from a Vcoins dealer, they are among those who support the FREE Fax Wizard.

If you wish to study the issue more on your own I suggest going to the ACCG website here:

http://www.accg.us/

Remember it is .us, not .com.

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COLLECTORS RIGHTS RESOLUTION

WHEREAS, we believe that the U.S. Constitution, not the United Nations should be, where appropriate, the guide for the regulation of business and trade;

WHEREAS, we also believe that a government that wishes to regulate the collecting hobbies of private citizens on behalf of foreign powers, especially if it involves the seizure or reclamation of property purchased in good faith has overstepped both the spirit and letter of the 4th, 5th and 11th Amendments of the Constitution;

RECOGNIZING that the numismatic trade provides many fine families with their means of income, and also creates numerous jobs in support industries, key to states such as Wisconsin where companies publish books, manufacture coin and stamp holders, binders, software and other supplies that support the collectibles hobby;

WHEREAS, we believe that import restrictions and cultural property laws may have the unintended consequences of driving hundreds of family businesses into ruin and also criminalize the hobbies and educational activities of numerous law abiding citizens;

WHEREAS, we support reasonable efforts to protect archaeological sites and public and private collections, we oppose the claims of those who say: (a) Anything “old” should be considered state property; (b) Anything without a detailed ownership history should be deemed stolen; and (c) Only foreign states and their favored academics should have the right to preserve, protect and study the past.

THEREFORE we reject recent efforts to restrict the collecting of art, books, coins, pottery, stamps, weapons and other common antique collectibles over 100 years old;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Republican Party of Wisconsin, in convention assembled, asks lawmakers to oppose any import restrictions or other constraints on the collecting of art, books, coins, militaria, pottery, stamps, weapons and other common antique collectibles as a waste of valuable government resources.

BE IT ALSO RESOLVED that the Republican Party of Wisconsin, in convention assembled, asks lawmakers to pass a bill exempting art, books, coins, militaria, pottery, stamps, weapons and other common antique collectibles for consideration from future import restriction and cultural property laws and treaties.

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Other Relevant Links

Ancient Coin Collecting (blog by Numismatic Author Wayne Sayles)
http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

P.S. - be sure to read Wayne's entry Guarding America?

Cultural Property Observer (blog by Lawyer Peter Tompa, a Cultural Artifact Atty.)
http://culturalpropertyobserver.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins (blog by Coin Dealer Dave Welsh)
http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

My Coin Groups

Ancient & Medieval Coins
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientandmedievalcoins

World Coin Collecting
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldCoinCollectingMod

Indian Coins and Banknotes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCoinsandBanknotes

Fake Alert! China Does It Again!

2009-04-18T19:36:00.000-07:00

Here is a terrific article that just came to my attention by Susan Headly:

Inside a Chinese Coin Counterfeiting Ring

Photos of Counterfeit Coin Dies, Minting Machinery, and Fake Coins

The frightening thing is the photos indicate to me the quality has dramatically improved over the laughable fakes they were turning out 1 and 2 years ago which had a very pewter-like appearance that would only fool newbie collectors. Before they were selling them all raw but now they are even selling slabbed fakes with PCGS and NGC holders. Pretty scary stuff.

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

***25 Widows Mites - Dealer Lot***
http://www.ancientpeddler.com/auction/item.php?id=73

FA / FS: BUY OR BID - ANCIENT & WORLD COINS ON EBAY

2009-04-09T15:42:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

I have not been posting much lately due to a sore shoulder (rotator cuff) but I have these ending over the weekend:

PMN - 1875 NORWAY 5 ORE - ***THE KEY DATE*** - VF+
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357029450

PMN - TYRE PHOENICIA SHEKEL FRACTION/OBOL BIBLICAL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357029872

PMN - 1918 GEORGE V PENNY - BETTER GRADE - BUY OR BID
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357030270

PMN - NICELY CENTERED WIDOW'S MITE - HENDIN 469
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357030927

PMN - 1925 AUSTRIA SCHILLING AU - 99¢ BUY OR BID NO RSV
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357031268

PMN - ELAGABALUS - NIKOPOLIS MOESIA INFERIOR - GRAPES
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357031905

PMN - 1964-G FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY ***KEY DATE***
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357032230

PMN - MANUEL I - BILLON TRACHY - BETTER EXAMPLE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320357032260

PMN - PHILIP I - ADVENTVS AVG - SHARP - FROSTY - EF+
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320319363775

PMN - GETA AS CAESAR - AR DENARIUS - PONTIF COS II - EF
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320286633959

PMN - BU/UNC - 1936 - BRITAIN - 3 PENCE - GEORGE V
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320285441949

Thanks for looking!

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

Statism & Cultural Property Nationalism

2009-03-19T14:38:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

Before I go any further, I want to thank my friends and colleagues Wayne Sayles, Dave Welsh and Peter Tompa for always sticking up for me and encouraging me - even when it ticks off the 'powers that be'. Every so often my name gets dragged through the mud by the CPN crowd and I am not always around to defend my good name or to clarify what I said.

This article is in reply to an leading statement made by Nathan Elkins about 2 weeks back on his blog. Name calling has become a standard problem in the discussions (better described as arguments) that take place between private collectors and a certain brand of archaeologists. I grew tired of the banter, particularly from a certain Brit residing in Poland (who shall remain nameless) who has no interest in dialogue, just setting up straw men and tossing about red herrings. I have better things to do.

But I usually had better luck with Nathan Elkins. Well, Nathan recently took something I said which was very philosophical and turned it into something else:

"It was not my purpose to “name names,” but if you insist I was thinking particularly of some of the uninformed and alarmist statements made by Mr. Welsh (Chair of the ACCG’s International Affairs Committee), who is listed among the ACCG’s top officers on its webpage and who recently won an award from the group for his valued contributions and voice supporting “collectors rights.” I also note that on his blog, Mr. McGarigle, another dealer who has been honored by the ACCG for advancing “collectors rights” in Wisconsin, seems to be comparing the current situation in Germany with the fascism of the 1930’s and 1940’s and Nazism. That seems a bit over the top and alarmist to me. On the discussion lists, many collectors and ACCG members themselves have been very panicked by the events in Germany and have made some very outlandish and alarmist statements. In my view, it seems telling that rather than rationalizing the dialogue, certain individuals associated with the ACCG seem to be stoking it. In the midst of the current state of the alarmist discussions, you only made a plug for ACCG membership on the Unidroit list. If the ACCG has in its leadership people who are engaging in alarmism and has honored valued members who are now doing likewise, I would hope the organization would kindly rein them in if they are in fact misrepresenting the position, goals, or values of the ACCG." emphasis mine

Here is what I said,

"I'm not shocked or surprised to see this happening with China which is a communist (and therefore statist and totalitarian regime) government do this, for their government it is par for the course. Nor am I shocked that it is happening in Germany because they have flirted with fascism and gone back and forth with mild forms of socialism over the years. But it is still disturbing nonetheless because of the precedent it sets for other governments to follow, they can point to Germany now and say, "they do it, why not us?"

There was more but the point is I did not use the words 'Nazi' or 'National Socialism' and what I said was said in passing and philosophically - and it was a statement of fact. What Nathan probably fails to understand is that here in America we have high standards of personal liberty. To the average American, a government that would actually come into a person's home and confiscate something like a coin collection sounds like something out of a George Orwell novel or a kooky conspiracy theory, to some of his archaeological colleagues it sounds like a rational remedy to private collecting.

Not to beat a dead horse, but one of America's legal norms, the right to privacy in one's person and property and from the police is part and parcel of our constitution and the 3rd article was born out of American colonists disdain for the way British soldiers behaved during the Revolutionary War. Experiences like that have given Americans a perspective that there are some things a government just should not do.

Germany has had fascist and socialist governments. That is simply a fact. Fascism and Socialism are forms of Statism. In America citizens have Rights and Liberty but government is limited. In much of Europe the converse is true.

My post which made a passing reference to Germany's unfortunate history did not use the words 'Nazi' or 'National Socialism' or any other inflammatory terms. Nathan hypocritically called for reason and civility then placed words in my mouth that were never spoken and called me an alarmist. What a crock. I used to think Nathan was a cut above the likes of his colleague in Poland but now I consider them both at an impasse for serious discussion.

Elkins has clearly decided his meal ticket is in being a cultural property crusader and has abandoned rational discourse for partisan spin.

And this is why I have put these jerks on *Ignore*

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

German Collections are Being Confiscated. (Posted At UNIDROIT-L)

2009-02-01T14:34:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

These troublesome articles were posted recently on UNIDROIT-L:

- - - - - - - - - - - -

German Collections are Being Confiscated.
[email deleted for privacy]
Sorry, I can't translate the whole articles

http://www.fr-online.de/frankfurt_und_hessen/nachrichten/frankfurt/1655596_Kein-Raeuber-aber-ein-Kaempfer.html

http://www.mz-web.de/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=ksta/page&atype=ksArtikel&aid=1229852966388&openMenu=1012902958733&calledPageId=0

The German Numismatic Association is trying to stem the tide somewhat.
http://www.numismatische-gesellschaft.de/

I have translated part of their statement. It's not a pretty sight if
this is the solution to cultural property theft.

[name deleted for privacy]

Private collections have formed the seed from which a majority of museum collections have grown. Time after time, private collecting has provided important information and new discoveries for scholarly numismatics.

This is why recent events have filled us with worry. Collecting, especially of medieval and ancient coins, has been accused as a criminal act; under the unjustifiable accusation that collecting is the result and cause of the illegal looting of archaeological sites around the world. The police conduct searches of homes, collections are confiscated, collectors are charged with smuggling. There is talk of a reduced legal rights for collectors.

We cannot and will not allow coin collecting and dealing to become criminalized and therefore make the following clarification.

1. Collecting of ancient and medieval coins is not criminal. Documented provenance for every coin is not necessary. Still, we urge collectors to document their collections more than before even if they were acquired at coins shows or other venues.

2. We support the protection of archaeological sites and historically significant coin finds. We understand coin hoards can have more worth than simply their financial worth.

3. We oppose any theft of protected cultural property, demand in return, that collectors ,who buy coins over the Internet or elsewhere, in good faith with without intent to acquire stolen cultural property, are not charged with accepting stolen property. Confiscations of complete collections must be stopped. We oppose the behavior of the police in performing home searches and confiscation entire collections.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

COMMENTARY:

It is disturbing to see this development although not unexpected. Runaway government intrusion into the lives of innocent people over innocent activities is nothing new. Frederick Bastiat, a French economist and political philosopher wrote about 'legal plunder' back in 1850 when he published a powerful little pamphlet titled simply The Law which he wrote following the French Revolution of 1848.

Whether you are a 'civil liberties' liberal or an 'anti-big-government' conservative, somewhere in the middle or totally apolitical, the *one thing* coin collectors need to stand united against is any intrusion by government to meddle in something that isn't worthy of government involvement. Coin collecting is certainly one of those things. When the government get's involved in harmless, innocent pastimes like people's hobbies - where does the government stop?

I'm not shocked or surprised to see this happening with China which is a communist (and therefore statist and totalitarian regime) government do this, for their government it is par for the course. Nor am I shocked that it is happening in Germany because they have flirted with fascism and gone back and forth with mild forms of socialism over the years. But it is still disturbing nonetheless because of the precedent it sets for other governments to follow, they can point to Germany now and say, "they do it, why not us?"

This is where the rubber hits the road for collectors. Do I want the government to suddenly be involved with and regulating my hobby at every turn or worse, do I want my hobby to turn into a criminal activity overnight?

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

My Coin Blog
http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/

What I got for Christmas

2009-01-16T22:41:00.000-08:00

Here is what I got for Christmas:

INDO-SCYTHIAN, AZES II Silver tetradrachm, Zeus right type. CHOICE!

Obverse: King mounted on horse right, holding whip, Kharoshthi letter de at right, Greek legend around: BAΣIΛEΩΣ BAΣIΛEΩN MEΓAΛOY / AZOY.

Reverse: Zeus standing right, holding right hand outstretched, holding sceptre in left, monogram at left, Kharoshthi letter si right, Kharoshthi legend around: Maharajasa rajarajasa mahatasa / Ayasa.

Date: c. 1st century BCE

Weight: 9.73 gm.

Diameter: 24 mm.

Die axis: 2 o'clock

Reference: MIG 828, Sen 99.67T

Comments: Mitchiner identifies the deity on the reverse as Poseidon, perhaps on the strength of the trident-like sceptre, but Senior identifies the figure as Zeus. A CHOICE coin!

A Note on the tetradrachms of Azes II: Azes II issued a wide array of tetradrachms that can be bewildering even to advanced collectors. The obverse is typically the so-called "KMW" or King mounted with whip. The reverses feature different deities: sometimes Zeus, sometimes Pallas Athena, sometimes a city goddess, and a given deity can be in different poses. The next criteria for differentiation is the monograms and/or letters on the reverse. Finally, there are distinguishing Kharoshthi letters on the obverse in front of the horse.

Description by seller CoinIndia.

I had one of these already but I wanted to upgrade when I saw this one on Vcoins and so I emailed the link to my wife who was kind enough to get it for me. In hand it looks nearly Mint-state, EF++ as my old dealer pal Mike Marx would say.

S-W-E-E-T!

Holiday Hiatus Over!

2009-01-16T21:35:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

The holidays are over (nearly over, my B-day is Wednesday the 21st) and so I have decide it was time I got back to work. I have auctions posted on eBay and I am back to blogging on all things concerning ancient and world coins.

There is a fairly new Yahoo group devoted to Biblical coinage (the other one is functionally a dead group) started by my friend Jerry who has several other groups on Yahoo.

As I sit here watching a rented DVD of The Mummy: Tomb Of The Dragon Emperor

it seems only appropriate that I mention the Pobjoy Mint on behalf of the Isle of Man is releasing a new Silver and Gold coin set commemorating the coming of the Terracotta Army to the British Museum (in London, I didn't know London was on the Isle of Man ;-)) They are the first coins that the Pobjoy Mint has made with a hole through the centre. The coins are part of an ongoing 'History of Man' series which started with the Tutankhamun collection (didn't know the Tut exhibit was on the Isle of Man either!).

More info here.

Thats all for now,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

My Coin Blog
http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/

Bible Numismatics 1: Jesus And The 30 Pieces Of Silver

2008-11-29T11:09:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

Recently there has been a lively discussion going on at Moneta-L, a Yahoo Group for ancient coin collecting. It has been over the value of the 30 pieces of silver given for Jesus' life to Judas Iscariot by the 'Chief Priests' of the Jewish Temple. Here are the relevant passages:

Matthew 26:14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, 15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. 16 And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him. King James Version (KJV)

and

Matthew 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: 2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. 3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. 7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. 8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day. 9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; 10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me. King James Version (KJV)

The post started off here, you might have to be logged in as a member (free to join) to read the posts so I will copy the better posts here minus the author's names and with a few minor spelling and grammar changes:

1st Post

Thirty Pieces of Silver in Today's Terms

Dear List,

I was at my local coin store today when the owner, who knows I'm a pastor, asked me if I knew what the infamous thirty pieces of silver from Jesus' betrayal might possibly be worth in today's currency - not in numismatic value, but in real earnings. In other words, how much would thirty shekels be in 2008 dollars.

I didn't have a good answer for him so I said I'd ask.

I know this is a vague and difficult question to answer, but are there educated guesses out there?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Re: [Moneta-L] Thirty Pieces of Silver in Today's Terms

I think we are all in agreement that a denarius/drachma was about a days pay for a skilled laborer, so 30 pieces of Silver is equal to about 120 days pay, but I believe this was based on a low standard of living - more like the 3rd world today.

A good point for value reference is in 1st century AD (outside Rome) it would have cost about 100 Denari (200 Denari in Rome) to buy a years supply of wheat, oil and wine (basics) for a family of 4.

Here are some actual rates in 1st century Rome (before Nero)

Secretary =15 Denari/month
Lecturer =12 Denari/month
Messenger = 9 Denari/month
Fortune Teller = 10 Denari/month
Legionary = 20 Denari/month
Praetorian = 60 Denari/month

Prices in Rome

A Modius (6.67 kg) of wheat cost 32 AS (Rome), in the provinces about 1/2 that and 1/4 in rural areas
Loaf of Bread = 2 AS
Sextarius (1/2 liter of table wine) = 1 - 5 AS
Sextarius of fine wine = up to 30 AS
Public Bath = 1/4 AS
1 cloth tunic = 15 Sestersi
1 donkey = 500 Sestersi
1 slave = 500 denari
1 morgan(?) of land 250 denari

Prices as posted in Pompey

1 modium rye = 3 Sestersi
1 litra (1/3 kg oil) = 1 Sestersi
1 loaf of bread (+/- 1 lb)= 1 AS
1/2 liter of table wine = 1 AS
1 pot = 1 AS
1 dish = 1 AS
1 Oil Lamp = 1 AS
1 tunic cloth = 15 Sestersi
1 bucket = 8 AS
Criminal Fine = 25 Sestersi

I believe when talking about a denarius or drachma a day we must consider that this is a society where you could buy a slave for 500 Denarius so labor wages had to be competitive with slave labor. In Rome if it cost 200 Denarius a year just for basic food - a Denarius a day would not have been a very high standard of living.

One Roman writer (I forget who it was) says he would need 2500 denarii a year to maintain a middle class life style in Rome.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Re:Thirty Pieces of Silver in Today's Terms

On Passover night, the Jews have a long elaborate meal combined with narrative about the exodus from Egypt. At the very end, there is a song, the refrain for which is "one kid (i.e. a small goat used for the Passover sacrifice) which my father bought for two zuzim". A zuz is ~ to a denarius (in the time of Bar Kochva, ~131-135 ce) the zuzim were overstruck on Roman denarii. It's denomination is 1/4 shekel. So a shekel would buy 2 goats with a maximum age of one year old. I never bought a goat, but a 55kg (121 pound) sheep/lamb cost me in Israel ~$250 US. I think that they are cheaper in the United States.

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Re:Thirty Pieces of Silver in Today's Terms

Afaik the legend tells us not what became of the proceeds, but 14oz of silver would provide Thanksgiving dinner for dozens of our destitute brethren, those said to be first in the heart of the hero betrayed.

Relating this tale of ancient coins to our own lives has been thought-provoking and fun.

Today we count blessings that can't be equaled in silver.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

The coin in question is most likely the Shekel of Tyre, I have a very corroded one in my own collection which I recieved from a British dealer who mistook it for a tetradrachm of Elagabalus for a mere £5 GBPs ($10 USD at the time) :

Here is a better one from the lifetime of Christ (4/5 A.D.) :

Here is what 30 (mixed dates) would have looked like:

Full Lot Description here.

More profound than the coins themselves, the price seems related to the cost of living in real terms. It is folly to translate the value of something like 30 tetradrachms into 2008 dollars as if we could just crank it through a currency converter or tabulate the value of silver or gold then and now. But a skilled laborer, someone like today's Nurse or Tool and Die Maker, take what they make per day, times 4, times 30 and you begin to get a handle on it. I did some of my own calculations based upon when my wife was a nurse and it came out to about a 1/2 a years wages.

Would you kill a close, faithful friend or sell your soul for 6 months of what you earn?

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

My Coin Blog
http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/

New eBay Policy - No Personal Checks

2008-11-24T14:15:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

I have got this real love/hate thing with eBay. Some days I make OK money selling on it and other days it does these stupid things that make me want to scream! Today is one of those days. I updated a fixed price listing to accept 'Best Offers' and toward the end (when the item was listed) I was told I had an unacceptable form of payment listed. Huh?

Long ago I had cleaned up my auction listing terms of any references to Western Union, Bidpay, Greenzap and all the other forms of payment I used to take. I find it pretty remarkable that the U.S. government would allow eBay to bar the use of Cash (printed by the government and still legal tender last time I checked) or Money Orders (also printed by the government at the Post Office) and ONLY allowing Paypal and ProPay (essentially private banking companies).

I mean, isn't there a U.S. law about merchants having to accept cash if offered since it is legal tender? I'd like to hear from anybody who knows one way or the other in the comments.

And . . . if you think this new policy is inconvenient bullsh**, feel free to contact eBay and tell them it is.

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
http://www.myspace.com/numismatistguy

My eBay 'ME' Page
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/polymath_numismatics

My Coin Blog
http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/

2008 - A Year of Hoards

2008-11-23T19:39:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

2008 was certainly a year of hoards.

1st there was the hoard found in January (or at least reported then) from Gainsborough, UK during the construction of the Gainsborough Hotel & Thermal Spa.

Then there was a hoard of Gaulish coins in February as well as some Roman Republican coins found in Bulgaria.

Then a Viking era hoard of mainly Middle-Eastern coins in Sweden in April.

And then in the fall we had Celtic and Germanic coins in a cornfield in the southern Dutch city of Maastricht, about 6,000 copper alloy coins were found buried in two pots in Wales , a number of thin silver coins in Novgorod, Russia.

And of course there was the find uncovered by Odyssey of over 500,000 silver and several hundred gold coins. One of the largest finds ever.

I am sure I am missing some others but suffice it to say as the year draws to a close this has been an exciting year for coin finds.

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

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The Final Reply Paul Would Not Post

2008-11-07T15:05:00.000-08:00

Greetings gentle readers,

As you may know, Paul often edits or simply does not print my replies to him. It's his blog and that is his right but he then goes on to say what I said was off topic and so on with the usual distortions . . . sigh, whatever. Here is my last reply he just wouldn't print:

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Greetings,

I think Shanks is right, no method currently employed stops looting, if anything the current laws encourage it. The looters are making money selling what they find. It would be better for those areas to be professionally dug and the artefacts professionally conserved and for archaeologists to make money and fund the needs archaeology has like site security, documentation, etc.

I know you are concerned about digging for digging's sake in order to produce items which collectors want. I hold that concern in common with you and that is why I would prefer it be done by professionals instead of reckless looters. Then it can be done professionally and be taxed & regulated by the government.

As for telling tens of thousands of ancient coin collectors to give up their hobby - you would have just as much luck changing human nature, making water dry or making fog transparent. It was once opined that there were (conservatively) 50,000 serious ancient coin collectors in North America (U.S. & Canada) alone and that was several years ago and did not really account for those who only buy lots of uncleaned coins because back at the time, those people were not considered 'serious collectors' by dealers.

You can't change human nature, you need to create laws that work with human nature. I know when I took anthropology one of my key disagreements with the discipline was that it viewed human nature as either plastic or a soup of heredity & environment. I don't discount hereditary or environmental factors in how a person turns out but I feel there are certain things that are fixed about us and not subject to change and I think the desire to acquire is one of them.

I had an International Relations professor at my university who was Polish and was involved in Solidarity in the 1980s. He was neither left or right politically but one thing he was convinced of was how the Soviet system was entirely at war with human nature. The idea of rejecting the family in favor of the state, private property for collective property and so on.

You cannot get rid of collectors and not all items are of equal significance. It would be better to have a fully licit market which allows for private ownership of items of minor significance with incentives for following the law and disincentives for breaking it.

You don't like my solution and I don't like yours and this is the crux of the problem. I think my proposal is a very good middle ground (obviously it is someplace in the middle as some dealers rejected it as too complicated and/or labor intensive) because it allows collecting minor items (coins) to continue but also empowers archaeologists to have a hand in regulation and implementation.

I am no apologist for the uber-rich collector of priceless national treasures. I am not the defender of people who break heads off of statues, steal icons out of Churches or cuts reliefs off monuments. That said however, I do not think it serves anyone to refuse to study or publish items that do not have a provenance. As Hershel Shanks noted, the Dead Sea Scrolls were taken from their context and look what we have learnt from those.

Jim

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Since Paul is in the habit of quoting me out of context, editing my replies and putting words in my mouth I have gotten into the habit of copying and pasting my replies to him into txt documents because otherwise he plays these games.

I've had much more civil exchanges with Nathan Elkins and David Gill. I don't think all archaeologists who are concerned with cultural property issues are obnoxious or closeminded like Barford, nor as ideological. I am sure they look at some of my colleagues and have similar thoughts.

Nuff said for now,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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Collectors - Few and Anachronous? - A Possible Cultural Divide?

2008-11-06T23:30:00.000-08:00

One last critique of what Paul Barford said in his latest posting about collecting antiquities (including ancient coins):

(Quoting me--->) “Humans are acquisitive by nature, many people collect something”.
”Many” maybe, but in fact the majority do not. In addition, the majority of people who take an interest in the past read books or indulge their interest in other ways, they do not buy looted artefacts. Portable antiquity collectors are an anachronous and erosive minority, taking for their own personal entertainment and profit that which modern archaeology says should form the basis of knowledge available to all. It is as simple as that, it is a matter of conservation of a finite resource and not any “property laws” .

The majority do not collect? How does that square with 'many'? Doesn't 'many' imply more than a few? There is also this problem of 'looted artefacts'. It is as if to say all artefacts are looted. This is the archaeological 'Party Line' of course but it is not the truth.

I went on eBay and did an open search under 'Collectibles' and came up with 2,123,906 hits - just for U.S. listings. Then I did it again for 'Coins and Paper Money' and came up with 286,069 items - once again this is only for the U.S. eBay website. Next I did 'Stamps' and came up with 206,562 hits. I did 'Antiquarian & Collectible Books' and came up with 103,342 hits - once again for U.S. listings only.

Another reality check, both the U.S. and U.K. have highly rated T.V. shows with large followings on antique (or antiquity by UNIDROIT legal norms) collecting such as the Antiques Road Show in the U.S. and Cash In The Attic which is broadcast in both the U.K. and the U.S.

Mr. Barford can assert what he wants to about collectors but it does not make it true, it certainly does not mesh well with the hard evidence.

I mean, I know you want to try to marginalize us (collectors) with every verbal weapon you can Paul, but frankly when you try to pull off this kind of nonsense you look and sound pretty damn foolish. OR - maybe we are both half-right - maybe since you have been living in a former communist country for some time you don't see collections and collectors regularly like I do here in the U.S. and don't realize the volume of people who actually collect and the volume of those collections. Maybe you and I have a culturally created gap in our human experience.

I know there is a wide gulf between some Europeans and America in regards to intellectual property. Years ago when Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software was new, a friend of mine and some colleagues of his were going to take the full German edition of Luther's Works and scan it and then translate it and publish both the English and German together electronically. Here in America after a certain amount of time, any book, film or song goes into the 'public domain'. My friend and his colleagues were prevented from doing their work because of German copyright law even though the books themselves were well over 100 years old and the publisher was out of business.

If this gulf is insurmountable then the problem will remain where it is right now ad infinitum like a car with it's tires stuck in the mud - wheels spinning vigorously but going nowhere.

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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A Reply To Paul

2008-11-06T22:52:00.002-08:00

Gee, as usual Paul you said so much I hardly know where to begin but let me take a stab.

OK - for one thing, you just simply don't want a legal outlet for antiquity sales, you said,

"Furthermore, Shanks describes the editorial policies of some journals not to enhance the value of looted items in the market by allowing their publication in those journals as "even stupider" and labels it an "the avert-the-eyes strategy". He seems not to regognise that it is a policy which has its eyes firmly on the legitimising effects of scholarly interest in a looted item. So what is Shanks' idea of how to deal with the pronblem? Well, somewhat incongruously, it is not only legitimising the market, but taking part in it.

Compete with the looters. Professional archaeologists should professionally excavate areas subject to looting—and fund their excavations by selling the “loot.” "

So it is safe to say you do not want a legitimate, legal market. You want to maintain the status quo which only feeds looting. I have proposed a solution to the problem of looting and your colleague Nathan Elkins liked my idea as contained in these 2 posts:

http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/2008/07/coins-and-cultural-property-solution.html

http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/2008/07/coins-and-cultural-property-solution_30.html

While Shanks did not outline his position in detail, he is aiming in the same direction as I am which is to have a rational, legal & regulated antiquities market which includes professional archaeological training. I can think of numerous reasons why I'd prefer to get ancient coins from an archaeologist or a trained amateur as opposed to a mere looter:

1) Following the law - self explanatory, I already do that but not everyone does.

2) Care taken with the object[s]

I once got some copper coins from India that were cleaned in gasoline. It ruined the surfaces of many of the coins. I'd rather have a person with good conservation skills handling coins (and other objects).

3) Provenance - coins with provenance will command a better price.

I'm going to ignore all the false words you put into my mouth and all the ideas you say I subscribe to. You are talking out of your ideology as usual. I'm just not going to respond to all that claptrap.

About Shanks opinion, good opinions (articles) are worth sharing and repeating. I expanded on what Shanks said that appealed to me and left the rest to stand as is because I did not think I had to add to it. Well stated ideas stand on their own.

I think one thing you really fail to address is the status quo of existing prohibitive, statist laws and how they just don't seem to work. This is where people who hold to your point of view on this topic really have blinders on, haveyour head in the sand and remind me of the 3 monkeys see-no-evil, hear-no-evil & speak-no-evil.

Finally, when Shanks said,

"I call this the avert-the-eyes strategy. Don’t look at it. Needless to say, this strategy has had absolutely no effect on looting, although it makes a major contribution to the self-righteous feeling of those who adopt it."

I think there he hit the nail on the head. The current status quo of archaeology DOES NOTHING but give a warm, fuzzy feeling of righteousness and self-satisfaction to it's subscribers.

Shanks Is Still Right . . . And Barford Is Wrong

2008-11-06T14:54:00.000-08:00

Paul Barford recently said this,

I wrote what is below as a reply.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Shanks is right.

The current practice of many archaeologists does not work where the rubber hits the road. It makes many archaeologists feel good if not righteous but it does not solve the problem of looting. It fails the basic test of where the rubber hits the road.

The UK has a rational approach, not perfect but still rational as it acknowledges basic human nature. While the world does have it's occasional Mother Theresa it has for more Donald Trumps (to use a grotesque example). Humans are acquisitive by nature, many people collect something. There is a reason we have private property laws in free countries but not in totalitarian ones. In totalitarian societies, the powerful control the government and rob the people (some like to call it redistribution of wealth) as a matter of law. In free countries the people have their private property protected as a matter of law - but I digress.

When I took philosophy our prof put the old saw of a question to us, "If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there, does it make any sound?" I said of course it does, there is just nobody nearby to hear it. A friend of mine who had bought into Frege, Kant, Wittgenstein, et al (skeptical philosophers) said the tree did not make any sound because there was no one there to hear it. This is precisely what archaeologists who support the status quo are doing. They are taking a see-no-evil (don't acknowledge), speak-no-evil (don't publish), hear-no-evil (don't read about) approach to unprovenanced antiquities. Now I don't know if to be an archaeologist these days you must be a practitioner of 'The Secret' but I must say the archaeological community is certainly exercising what my old anthropology profs used to call 'magical thinking' - don't acknowledge it and it will go away.

I think legalizing and regulating antiquity sales would be far more preferable . . . but it might not give the archaeologists that warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

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Hershel Says The Obvious

2008-11-04T11:25:00.000-08:00

Greetings,

1st things 1st, full disclosure - I have been a longtime fan of Hershel Shanks and a subscriber of his flagship publication BAR Magazine since the mid-1980s.

Hershel Shanks has long taken heat for at least indirectly advocating the private ownership of antiquities (the magazine sometimes carries ads from antiquity dealers) but now he just says it plainly:

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

BAR 34:06, Nov/Dec 2008

First Person: A Radical Proposal

Why don’t the archaeologists join the looters?

By Hershel Shanks

“Profits are phenomenal, and looters are running riot,” says Giorgio Gligoris, head of Greece’s police squad set up to combat antiquities trafficking. He’s right! That’s one thing on which all agree, whether it’s the Mayan jungle, Etruscan tombs, Iraq’s cuneiform tablets, Mediterranean coastal waters or sites in the West Bank.

But that’s about as far as agreement goes: Antiquities looting is rampant!

The archaeological establishment’s principal suggestion that will supposedly stop the looting is—well, not to put too fine a point on it—stupid. “Don’t buy looted antiquities” is the strategy. Admittedly, if there were no market for looted antiquities, looting would stop. If the looters could not sell their loot, they would discontinue looting.

But the only effect of this policy is to send the looted objects to buyers who will put the loot in their living rooms instead of in museums—so we, the public, will never see it.

The second strategy adopted by the archaeological establishment is even stupider: Forbid study by scholars of looted objects. This policy is not enunciated directly, but is carried out by scholarly organizations that will not allow articles about looted objects in their publications and will not allow papers on looted objects to be presented at their scholarly conferences. This is the policy, for example, of the Archaeological Institute of America, the major American organization of archaeologists. It is also true of the American Schools of Oriental Research, the major American organization of Near Eastern archaeologists. This policy was recently adopted by the Israel Exploration Journal but was promptly abandoned when a paper on an exciting new looted inscription was submitted to it.¹

I call this the avert-the-eyes strategy. Don’t look at it. Needless to say, this strategy has had absolutely no effect on looting, although it makes a major contribution to the self-righteous feeling of those who adopt it. It also has the additional effect of depriving the public (including scholars) of the valuable information that even looted objects can impart. As I like to say, looted objects may be worth less because they were ripped from their context, but they are not worthless. Indeed some of them, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, have actually transformed our understanding of aspects of history.

So here is my radical proposal. It may not solve the problem completely, but at least it makes economic sense.

Compete with the looters. Professional archaeologists should professionally excavate areas subject to looting—and fund their excavations by selling the “loot.” After all, we are assured by Giorgio Gligoris, “profits are phenomenal.” The “loot” from these professional excavations must, of course, be available for study and publication. And we will always know where they are in an open market—just as we know about the location of a Renoir painting.

Moreover, much of this professionally excavated loot will end up in museums. Indeed, museums will be some of the prime purchasers—with money provided by their benefactors. Other pieces will later be donated to museums by private purchasers. Such gifts provide the donor with a tax deduction in many countries—a nice inducement.

I recall a conversation I had with the current president of the Archaeological Institute of America, Brian Rose (before he became president). He had just given a paper decrying the looting of a rich tumulus in Turkey. There were several other tumuli at the site, so I suggested to Brian that professional archaeologists should excavate these other tumuli before the looters got hold of them; finance the dig through the sale of the artifacts to museums, where they would be available for study and publication. I’m sorry to say the suggestion had no appeal.

Even if my suggestion would not substantially reduce looting, it would be good for human knowledge. We would have more wonderful artifacts to study and to interest the public in the past. Isn’t that what we’re about?

But I am under no illusions. My suggestion here will no doubt fall on deaf ears.

1) A paper by Yuval Goren on the recently surfaced inscription variously called “Gabriel’s Vision” and “Gabriel’s Revelation.” See Ada Yardeni, “A New Dead Sea Scroll in Stone,” BAR 34:01, and Israel Knohl, “The Messiah Son of Joseph,” BAR 34:05.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

No doubt about it Hershel.

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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The 1st US Bailout - Courtesy Early American Auctions

2008-10-16T19:37:00.000-07:00

OK, a bit off-topic but - just an interesting little piece of Americana to show we have been down this road before!

I guess one man's 'worthless paper' is another's collectible !

TTFN,

PS: I got a few Pontius Pilate coins ending soon.

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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Portugese Shipwreck Found Off Namibian Coast . . . With Gold Coins

2008-09-29T03:54:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

Check out these articles:

Namibian Govt takes over ancient shipwreck

Uncovering Namibia's sunken treasure

Geologists Find Loaded Shipwreck Off Namibia Coast

Shipwreck off Namibia is 500-year-old treasure trove

Scientists study 16th-century shipwreck in Namibia

Namibia Shipwreck: Photo Gallery

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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ANA Establishes Government Affairs Committee

2008-08-28T18:41:00.000-07:00

Government Affairs Committee Established

ANA President Barry Stuppler has instituted a Governmental Affairs Committee. The committee was created to promote Association and coin collector interests in Washington, and keep members abreast of federal legislation that affects the hobby. Updates will be featured in The Numismatist and on www.money.org. The ANA thanks Mark Olanoff and Diane Piret for co-chairing this new committee.

ANA Legislative Update as of August 2, 2008

With the support of the Board of Governors, President Barry Stuppler created the ANA Government Affairs Committee and appointed Mark Olanoff and Diane Piret as co-chairs. Mark Olanoff has 10 years of lobbying experience at the federal and state level. Diane Piret has been an Industry expert for over 20 years and currently is employed by the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA).

COMMENTARY:
------------------

First off, I want to congratulate President Barry Stuppler on seeing a need and filling it by forming this committee. Some of us collectors have felt we are in a nearly adversarial relationship with the US government over the last decade. I also know the ANA and ANS used to play a more active role in our government and it is nice to see that role being restored. Coin and banknote collectors often have more collective wisdom about money than many of our politicians do and you can take that to the bank! I also want to congratulate Mark Olanoff and Diane Piret on their appointments and hope they are successful in their positions and wish them every success.

But I must express this one concern. The page is full of bills that mainly address possible new coin designs. What I would also like to see dealt with is the current struggle with the US State Dept and cultural property issues addressed too. As numismatists we need to stay united on these issues. Not all of us collect US money, plenty of us collect Ancient and Foreign / World coinage too. I hope that just because the ACCG is doing so much on that front that the ANA won't neglect the concerns of other coin collectors.

As cultural property laws continue to spread outside of the United States, Foreign / World coin and banknote collectors will begin to feel the squeeze just as ancient coin collectors already have. That a hobby as innocent as coin collecting even needs to defend itself from government action is an atrocious attack on personal freedom and an abuse of government power - and both US political parties can take a share of the blame.

So while I am pleased to see the ANA taking a more active role in the hobby as it relates to government, I hope this new department won't only act as a committee for suggesting new collectible proof sets so that the government can 'cash in' on US coin collectors. Proof sets and other collectible issues do serve an important purpose in commemorating US History and Americana in general but that shouldn't be sole focus of our hobby.

We are in another 'golden age' of coin collecting right now because of the perfect storm of forces at work in history right now:

New circulating coin programs such as the 50 State Quarter program
The widespread use of the internet and venues such as eBay
A much more reliable global postal system
The emergence of the Euro leading to an abundance of inexpensive foreign coins
The growth of new finds in ancients coming from Europe and the Middle East

But all this can come to a grinding halt if we give in to international pressure from foreign governments who push the failed policies of Cultural Property Nationalism, Protectionism and Statism. If we do not resist these forces, only the rich will be able to collect ancient coins and the only foreign coins that will remain collectible will be current 'pocket change' issues and annual proof sets, often minted right here in the USA and made to appeal to less than genuine historic or culturally important themes.

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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Possible Future Barack Obama Appointee Is A Cultural Property Advocate

2008-08-27T19:57:00.000-07:00

I just found this out:

Patty Gerstenblith Named to Obama Arts Committee

More about Patty Gerstenblith:

DePaul University Faculty Page

ACCG Afghanistan - Looted Coins Found

Cyprus Renewal Letter PDF

Patty Gerstenblith Bio

Either collectors will have to make more inroads within the Democratic Party (as some of us have within the Republican Party) OR vote for McCain OR a little of each to preserve our freedom to collect here in the USA. The AIA has allies in both parties, collectors are not beholden to any one party - speak up people!

It would also be worthwhile for collectors who have already decided to support Barack Obama to CONTACT HIM and tell him how you feel about Cultural Property Nationalism (as opposed to Cultural Property Internationalism), Import Restrictions & Coin Collecting. Blog about it, no better time than now to let Obama know!

Mental Shorthand Time

Cultural Property Nationalism = Anti-Collecting

Cultural Property Internationalism = Pro-Collecting

Scholarly Pedantics - More Extreme Archaeology

2008-08-26T16:57:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

Recently a certain archaeologist said,

"Basically any archaeological material found in UK soil or UK territorial waters, more than 50 years old and regardless of monetary value, requires an individual export licence to leave the UK."

Source?

Yes, I know you are shocked.

When I read it, one word came to my mind, Pedantic.

At the risk of looking pedantic myself:

Pedant
Ped"ant (?), n. [F. pédant, It. pedante, fr. Gr. to instruct, from pai^s boy. See Pedagogue.]

1. A schoolmaster; a pedagogue. [Obs.] Dryden.

A pedant that keeps a school i'th' church. Shak.

2. One who puts on an air of learning; one who makes a vain display of learning; a pretender to superior knowledge. Addison.

A scholar, yet surely no pedant, was he. Goldsmith.

ped·ant·ry (pdn-tr)
n. pl. ped·ant·ries
1. Pedantic attention to detail or rules.
2. An instance of pedantic behavior.
3. The habit of mind or manner characteristic of a pedant.

pedantry
Noun
pl -ries the practice of being a pedant, esp. in the minute observance of petty rules or details.

Emphasis mine.

I think documenting any coin 50 years old or older, regardless of value qualifies as a demonstration of pedantry or pedantic behavior.

For example, according to Krause & Mishler's Standard Catalog of World Coins, the lowest mintage for a British Victorian Farthing is 713,000 for a 1875 Farthing which has a collector value of $9 USD in Fine-12. That is about £4.50 GBPs. Many that are found by metal detectorists in the UK are only found in AG-3 to VG-8 condition which I think would be about Poor to Fair by UK grading standards. Coins like this are routinely and legally sold in group lots on eBay often inexpensively at a cost less than £0.50 pence each.

A coin listed on eBay for £3.00

Hey - that belongs in a museum!

1958 Elizabeth II Shilling - 50 Years Old:

1958 Mintage:14,392,000 Fine $0.25 VF $0.50 EF $3.00 UNC $22.50

That belongs in a museum too!

Provenance, pedigree and/or export licenses for a coin like that shilling? Extreme.

TTFN,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
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Open Reply To Paul Barford on Terminology

2008-08-23T00:36:00.000-07:00

Recently Paul Barford said,

There is a pattern here, most of the speakers are US coin collectors or dealers. Secondly, they all refer to a law they call “treasure Trove”, though ascribe it variously to Britain, the United Kingdom or England (forgetting Wales), interestingly none of them mention Scotland (see below). Thirdly they all seem agreed that for some reason this “Treasure Trove” law is very “fair” and it should be adopted as a pattern by all other countries in forming new antiquity protection laws, when collectors and dealers would be willing to respect them.

More here in his original post

Here is my expanded reply (Paul often chooses not to publish or to edit my replies)

Paul,

I don't know why you spilt so much ink over this. It is simply 'mental shorthand' on the part of collectors that you seem to be taking issue with and let me explain.

Some people on my side of the pond (both Americans and Canadians too) often refer to England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey, Man & Lundy (and I know there are more) simply as 'England'. At other times we might collectively call those areas 'Great Britain' and at other times we might call them the 'United Kingdom'.

It's mental shorthand. You may be right on the technical aspects of your argument but I think you misunderstand the thought processes of those you are attacking.

I also get the feeling that you operate on the highly ideological assumption that we are in favor of looting and that the aspects of the PAS and Treasure Act and the preceding Treasure Trove laws that were in any way restrictive we were automatically opposed to.

On the contrary, I have felt and have the distinct impression others have felt/do feel the same as I in that the regulations contained in the PAS, Treasure Act and preceding Treasure Trove law were/are fair regulations that make sense.

If you want to split hairs over the muddy use of PAS, Treasure Trove and the Treasure Act, fine, go ahead - but only people who have read Wittgenstein and Frege will care about your sense and nominatum hairsplitting.

Respectfully,

Knowing The Difference

2008-08-10T02:45:00.000-07:00

Greetings gentle readers,

In the blog Looting Matters, blog author David Gill asked,

"This is emotive talk ("sold out", "price of betrayal") from Tompa. Is he suggesting that organisations that "honour" individuals have ulterior motives? What about organisations that reward congressmen for supporting "collector rights" or intervening "in issues of importance to ancient coin collectors"? Or is that different?"

Fair question and the answer is yes - it is different and Gill being a citizen of the U.K. (Britain) may not understand why it is different. This is my expanded reply to him:

Yes, to your last question, it is different, substantially different. As someone who studied International Relations when I attended university, I can tell you that the loyalty of an embassy or State Dept employee who works for the U.S. Govt is to the U.S. both 1st and above all other countries. For a U.S. diplomat to be rewarded by a foreign country for going against the interests of it's own citizens could be grounds for both dismissal and likely jail time. It is foreign influence over a U.S. diplomat against the wishes and interests of the citizenry he/she is meant to serve, protect and defend. That person would be acting contrary to the very description of their job. I expect the same kind of loyalty would be required of any home office or foreign service employee in any other country. The mission statement of the U.S. State Dept says,

Advance freedom for the benefit
of the American people and the
international community by
helping to build and sustain a more
democratic, secure, and prosperous
world composed of well-governed
states that respond to the needs of
their people, reduce widespread
poverty, and act responsibly within
the international system.

Take note it says, "Advance freedom for the benefit of the American people" FIRST and mentions the international community second.

A U.S. State Dept employee has taken an oath to protect and defend the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and to defend U.S. interests at home and abroad. Nicholas Burns may have violated his oath if he gave favored treatment to foreign based Greek and Cypriot organizations over U.S. citizens. Career diplomats of many countries often face the temptation to do this as a means of getting along better with politicians of their host countries or with colleagues who serve other countries. Mr. Burns has made it eloquently clear where his feeling lie and he was a fool to do so.

By contrast, for a group like the ACCG (which is based in the U.S.) to thank a U.S. Congressman is thanks coming from a constituent group whose members are of the same country. This is normal in the U.S. and is consistent with U.S. Constitutional norms. U.S. Congressman have taken an oath much like the State Dept employees and it is their Constitutional duty, their *JOB*, to represent the citizens of the Congressional District and/or State in which they reside. For example here are the pages used by Barack Obama and John McCain for that function as U.S. Senators. The congressmen from Wisconsin all represent congressional districts that have coin clubs, coin dealers and in 2 of them, coin & stamp publishing & paraphernalia businesses. When those congressmen helped the ACCG, they were serving their constituents and that is their job.

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
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My eBay Feedback Just Hit 900 - Woo-Hoo!

2008-08-04T21:21:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

A special thanks to all who have bought from me as I have sold on and off over the years. I have just hit 900 with my feedback (which is really 1100+ received and 1300+ given!) on eBay and am hoping to reach 1000 soon. So thank-you one and all and if you have not bought from me yet, check me out and give me a try.

Speaking of 1000, my goal is to hit 1000 by the end of this August and make at least $1000. I have a trip in September and some bills to pay. As a result, besides the usual smattering of Ancient, World & U.S. coins, I will have some higher quality and unusual material - stuff out of my own collection also being listed.

Here is my current coin offerings:

ANCIENT:
------------

PMN - GETA AS CAESAR - AR DENARIUS - PONTIF COS II - EF
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282655664

PMN - VICTORINVS - SILVER-BILLON ANT - INVICTVS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282657753

PMN - GALERIUS - AE FOLLIS - EF
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282660729

PMN - ANTIOCHUS IV EPIPHANES - SCARCER ISSUE - TYRE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282648864

PMN - ARETAS IV AND SHUQAILAT - NICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282650032

PMN - SCARCE TRAJAN DUPONDIUS - NICE MATTE BLACK PATINA
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282651363

PMN - ARETAS III PHILHELLENOS - NABATAEAN
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282653251

PMN - SYLLAEUS AND ARETAS IV - RARE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282654667

PMN - EAGLE - ANTIOCHUS VIII GRYPOS - RADIATE BRONZE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282661517

PMN - MALICHUS II AND SHUQAILAT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282662821

WORLD:
------------

PMN - 1944 LAHORE MINT 1/2 RUPEE - KGVI
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282651471

PMN - 1943 SILVER 1/4 RUPEE - KGVI - CALCUTTA - BU-UNC
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282652759

PMN - MOOSE - 1971 PROOFLIKE QUARTER - BU
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282653473

PMN - 1978 - 10 FILS - JORDAN - UNC - RED
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282654083

PMN - LION - I YEAR TYPE - BELGIUM - 1939 - 1 FRANC
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282654375

PMN - RAM - SILVER AUSSIE SHILLING - 1961 - QEII
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282655381

PMN - LION - UNC 1951 5 STOTINKI BULGARIA - 1 YR TYPE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282656000

PMN - KNIGHT ON HORSEBACK SILVER 5 SHILLINGS AUSTRIA
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282657206

PMN - 1936B 1/4 RUPEE - BU-UNC SPECIMEN - GEORGE V
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282658439

PMN - BU/UNC - 1936 - BRITAIN - 3 PENCE - GEORGE V
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282660904

PMN - LION - 1 YR TYPE - 1953 25 CENTS - PARAGUAY UNC
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282662570

PMN - HEN - 1968 PENNY *FULL RED* REPUBLIC OF IRELAND
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320282664357

More material to be posted soon, keep checking back!

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

My Myspace Page
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My Coin Blog (New)
http://awcoingeek.blogspot.com/

My Thoughts Exactly!

2008-07-30T20:15:00.000-07:00

A coin collecting colleague of mine recently wrote this:

You would think that ECA would support activities like the
ANA and NYINC as way to promote people to people contacts
between Americans and foreigners AT NO COST TO THE US
TAXPAYER. Yet, import restrictions like those ECA recently
imposed on "coins of Cypriot type" threaten to make foreign
participation in such coin fairs as a thing of the past.

My thoughts exactly!

His column reminds me of an old Rodney Dangerfield quote that I will intentionally paraphrase, "I went to a coin show the other day, and a friendship broke out".

I have often preached that the international exchange of coins by PRIVATE CITIZENS of differing countries has a 'Peace Dividend' in that as people buy and sell or trade (coin and bank note trading is BIG over the internet!) coins as a hobby, it builds good will between those countries one person at a time. I have had both a French collector and an Arab collector say the precise same thing to me, "I hate George Bush but I love Americans!" As I am a Republican who worked to elect and re-elect Bush I was not happy to hear they did not like my President but I got what they were saying. They did not care for our current President but they harbored no ill will for Americans. In fact both told me of numerous friends and customers they had who were American.

Washington, are you reading this?

Some years back when I was a student at Mankato State University, I took a class in political philosophy from a terrific professor, Doran Hunter. He had us read Steven Macedo's Liberal Virtues: Citizenship, Virtue, and Community in Liberal Constitutionalism. A big part of what we talked about was 'cross cutting interests and institutions'. Here in America, one reason we don't have Protestants and Catholics who live side by side slitting each others throats is because we don't monolithically identify with just our own religion. We may belong to a political party, we may belong to a social club like the Rotary Club, we may play chess and belong to a chess club or we might COLLECT COINS and belong to a COIN COLLECTING CLUB. Under the old Soviet system and under many of the past Fascist regimes, social clubs were either eliminated or co-opted into the party structure. Why? Because clubs often have leaders and clubs are often built upon coalitions!

Are you listening State Department?

Much of today's import restriction requests are born out of a philosophy called Cultural Property Nationalism (hypernationalism) which is a product (in many cases) of bad feelings over colonialism, hypernationalism also is related to Fascism. But the truth be told, colonial powers did frequently behave badly and either stole or bought (at very low prices) what some might now consider national treasures. Cultural Property Nationalism may be bad and counterproductive to friendly international relations but it is conceived in feelings that have some justification. The problem we are faced with now is a 'baby-with-the-bathwater' problem. Coins are rarely national treasures, coins were mass produced for public circulation as a means of exchange for the buying and selling of commercial goods. You just cannot equate a bronze coin of Constantine the Great that has a retail value of say, $5 to $25 with something like King Tutankhamen's treasure. It is like comparing an antique beer can to a print made by Albrecht Dürer.

Sure, both are collectible, but one belongs in a basement bar display and the other belongs in a museum. Many archaeologists wish to stop all trading in unprovenanced antiquities. In order to do this they feel that even if ancient coins may very well be common, it is all or nothing. All antiquities, no matter how insignificant, must be regulated and preferably, professional archaeologists should be the sole arbiters of their possession and study.

Back to the original topic, collecting has a 'peace dividend' that transcends politics, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. If certain archaeologists and government busybodies (both with far too much time on their hands) want to send person-to-person international relations back 100 years, they should just keep doing what they have been doing. On the other hand, if a man in the U.S. wants to collect Judaean bronzes or Spanish milled silver, so what? And if a woman in India wants to collect U.S. or Canadian silver dollars, so what? Let them. This will promote cross-cultural exchange and global understanding when far too many balkanizing trends are at work.

Yeah, don't let people buy, sell and trade ancient and older world coins internationally - a friendship or business partnership might break out!

Peace,

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
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Coins And Cultural Property - A Solution Part 2

2008-07-30T10:53:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

For those of you following this discussion, Ed Snible has made several entries recently on his blog, "A Gift For Polydektes" in which he proposes several complimentary ideas that he gets from existing technologies such as photographic notarization, such as with a machine/service called DigiStamp and one called the The Kimberley Process Certification Scheme which is used with diamonds.

For Peter, Nathan & I all warming to one idea something must be afoot!

I'll keep you posted.

TTFN, Ta-Ta-For-Now (as Tigger would say)

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
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Coins And Cultural Property - A Solution

2008-07-30T10:00:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

I posted this idea back on November 8th of 2007 and both Paul Barford and Nathan Elkins seemed to like it. Imagine, me, a bogey-man of the 'Collecting Lobby' actually proposing a solution rather than just griping and throwing bombs.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unidroit-L/message/2688

Greetings,

We all have discussed (and bickered) about how to solve the problem of coins and looting. I think this is a problem that has several key component parts.

1) One big problem with looting is that in source countries with confiscatory laws, 'finding' an object intentionally or unintentionally can land you into trouble with the authorities and lead to confiscation. There is no incentive to properly report a find but every reason to go to a black market dealer. I think we need to look at a looter's motivation to dig - to make money. The laws should be changed to both honor private property concepts such as rewarding the finder and property owner for one thing so people are compensated fairly and do not turn to the black market. The other is to co-opt the diggers/looters to learn proper archaeology from the archaeologists, at least in some rudimentary basic way and bring the archaeologists in as both teachers and as monitors creating a symbiosis between the archaeologists and the citizens of the source country.

Write the laws so that the symbiosis carries benefits and higher profit and independent, illicit looting is less profitable and carries punishments. However, intelligent persons who are deemed to have genuine gifts for archaeology and meet certain competencies may be certified to work on their own or with reduced supervision.

2) Create a universal form for finds. Each form could have it's own alphanumeric number that is entered into a database, data would include a snapshot of the find in situ and if immediately conserved, an item such as a coin could have a photograph of each side taken as well. To address the possibility of this becoming cumbersome, if the archaeologist in charge determines all or most of the coins would be the same or similar and of low to moderate value, a percentage sample could be individually shot and the rest put on the market sold as a lot with a general provenance ticket. You would wind up with something like this:
-----
Ticket #: ABCD0009876
Country: United Kingdom
Area: Colchester
Items: 245 bronze coins of Constantine I (#76), Constantine II (#58),
Constans (#61), Licinius (#30) & unidentified slugs (#20).
-----
Individual coins worth recording could each have their own separate ticket and have the usual archaeological & numismatic info such as date of find, find spot, strata level (if applicable), country, ruler, obverse, reverse, size, weight, grade, denomination, metal, die axis, etc.

All ticket data would be entered into a searchable database that includes those categories and photos.

If so desired, for an extra fee a coin could be slabbed. (Ugh!)

A similar format could be applied to any other artifact, both those that are unique such as statuary, mummies, weapons, etc and others such as oil lamps, buckles, pins, arrow heads, etc that are more common.

3) Tax it all. I know some of us have an aversion to taxes, maybe call it an 'antiquity collector's user fee' (ha-ha!). Keep the fee low enough so it does not discourage sales but high enough to continue to fund the things archaeology needs like site security, funds for further expeditions, publishing, etc. Oh, and of course to pay those people building and maintaining the database! I envision it as a percentage sales tax of a rate between 5 to 9%. So if an archaeologist or a certified/licensed person would find a hoard of 100 silver coins valued at $50 each (to use a round number) and the lot was sold for $5000 then a 5% tax would create a $250 revenue. Of the $5000, the property owner would get $2500 and the finder or archaeological team would get $2500. The tax would be paid by the buyer like when the winner of an auction pays a hammer fee.

4) Give private collectors a way to enter their unprovenanced coins and antiquities into the database so their item has a number and a place in the database in the future. This makes sense because while some collectors collect everything they like, most specialize and those who specialize will have knowledge to impart as items are entered into the database. As items are sold and resold a trail of ownership (pedigree) can be built and established. When a sale is made, a dealer can immediately enter the transaction into the database. When a private individual gives an item or collection to a museum, the museum can refer to the database and make any needed entries. Likewise when a museum sells off deaccessioned items, again the record can be made to reflect that in the database. After this becomes normative practice if a seller tries to sell an item with no credentials of provenance nor pedigree to a buyer, the buyer will shun him. Hence looting and the sale of looted items will become unprofitable and the sale of ones with a known title will become not merely profitable but normative.

5) Collectors and dealers with items valued at $25 or less will be encouraged *but not required* to enter said items into the database. No criminal penalties will apply to the sale or ownership of low value, untitled items. I suspect if the fee to enter an item is minimal, a collector might do it if for no other reason than to raise it's value just as American coin collectors do when they 'slab' a modern US coin. In the end only the most abysmal and common examples will end up unrecorded.

6) Make use of the database for ancient coin dealers & antiquity dealers mandatory by law. Also dealer members of coin groups like the ANA, ACCG, PNG, etc who are ancient coin dealers would be required to regularly record their sales into the database or have their membership revoked. This would keep dealers accountable. This measure should be introduced gradually. It would be worthwhile to put some time and effort into having training seminars annually or semiannually even in different regions so dealers would have a chance to learn how it worked and how to use it.

There would be a penalty free phase-in period for several years while such an apparatus was phased in. I say this mainly because if it was done tomorrow, there would be a large number of older dealers who are so averse to computers and modern technology that it would be draconian in the extreme to force them to use such a thing. More computer literate people around my own age and younger would probably feel entirely at home with such a system.

I am sure I am forgetting something but I think this would be a good solution. To start with I think the database and form should be created 1st. If we make it normative practice in the world of numismatics and eventually museums and antiquity sales, it may just catch on and the laws will catch up to us.

I think a system like this would be a mutually agreeable answer to our current dilemma. I think once we drop our swords, we might realize we have more in common than we think. We both love the past, we both are concerned with conservation of ancient items. We just gotta toss out all the class warfare and give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Best to all (even Nathan and Paul),

Jim McGarigle

************

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unidroit-L/message/2689

My Own Solution - An Addendum

Comments interspersed below,

[snipped for brevity]
>
> 2) Create a universal form for finds. Each form could have it's own
> alphanumeric number that is entered into a database, data would
> include a snapshot of the find in situ and if immediately conserved,
> an item such as a coin could have a photograph of each side taken as
> well. To address the possibility of this becoming cumbersome, if the
> archaeologist in charge determines all or most of the coins would be
> the same or similar and of low to moderate value, a percentage sample
> could be individually shot and the rest put on the market sold as a
> lot with a general provenance ticket. You would wind up with something
> like this:
> -----
> Ticket #: ABCD0009876
> Country: United Kingdom
> Area: Colchester
> Items: 245 bronze coins of Constantine I (#76), Constantine II (#58),
> Constans (#61), Licinius (#30) & unidentified slugs (#20).
> -----
> Individual coins worth recording could each have their own separate
> ticket and have the usual archaeological & numismatic info such as
> date of find, find spot, strata level (if applicable), country, ruler,
> obverse, reverse, size, weight, grade, denomination, metal, die
axis, etc.
>
> All ticket data would be entered into a searchable database that
> includes those categories and photos.
>
> If so desired, for an extra fee a coin could be slabbed. (Ugh!)
>
> A similar format could be applied to any other artifact, both those
> that are unique such as statuary, mummies, weapons, etc and others
> such as oil lamps, buckles, pins, arrow heads, etc that are more common.

If there was a desire on the part of a seller to record the resale of
a bulk lot he purchased, he could apply a Sub Number (SN) to the
original number hence if he sold 5 coins to John Doe from Ticket #:
ABCD0009876, they would be numbered, ABCD0009876SN1, ABCD0009876SN2,
ABCD0009876SN3, ABCD0009876SN4 & ABCD0009876SN5.

ALSO - The universal form and the database would be used to record all
finds - both those headed strictly for being housed in museums or in
the case of common items like coins - items for sale. The form and
database are not just for the benefit of collectors and dealers but
for all involved.

> 3) Tax it all. I know some of us have an aversion to taxes, maybe call
> it an 'antiquity collector's user fee' (ha-ha!). Keep the fee low
> enough so it does not discourage sales but high enough to continue to
> fund the things archaeology needs like site security, funds for
> further expeditions, publishing, etc. Oh, and of course to pay those
> people building and maintaining the database! I envision it as a
> percentage sales tax of a rate between 5 to 9%. So if an archaeologist
> or a certified/licensed person would find a hoard of 100 silver coins
> valued at $50 each (to use a round number) and the lot was sold for
> $5000 then a 5% tax would create a $250 revenue. Of the $5000, the
> property owner would get $2500 and the finder or archaeological team
> would get $2500. The tax would be paid by the buyer like when the
> winner of an auction pays a hammer fee.

For items that would be put into govt museums, I'd follow the example
of the UK and give a fair market reward to the finder and property
owner and tax the reward as income targeted for archaeology expenses.

[snip]

> Best to all (even Nathan and Paul),
>
> Jim McGarigle

************

TTFN, Ta-Ta-For-Now (as Tigger would say)

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

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Animal Coins Part 1 - Ethiopian Lions

2008-07-26T04:49:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

As of late, I have been studying (and selling) coins with various animals on them. In the process of doing so I have made a few discoveries. Unless you are talking about those coins that are made strictly for collector consumption by the Pobjoy & Perth mints, a large bulk of animal coins will have Eagles or Lions on them. Just something noble about those creatures I suppose that makes them part of many nation's insignias.

What makes Ethiopia stand out in it's use of the Lion is it is not just any Lion but the 'Lion of Judah', a religious symbol. Until recent years, Ethiopia had it's own distinct (Felasha) Jewry who had fled Israel and had traveled down the Nile until they eventually settled in Ethiopia. Many later became Christian converts and Ethiopia was one of the 1st 'Christian nations' in world history. Both Christians and Jews believed that the Biblical Ark of the Covenant rested in a little Church in Axum where it is allegedly guarded by a little old monk. It is regarded as not just holy but powerful and this is why it is concealed from view from the general public according to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

Here are some coins from earlier in the 20th century:

10 Matonas - 1923EE / 1930/31 AD

25 Matonas - 1923EE / 1930/31 AD

50 Matonas - 1923EE / 1930/31 AD

25 Santims - 1936EE / 1943/44 AD (But actually minted in 1952/53 according to Krause-Mishler)

TTFN, Ta-Ta-For-Now (as Tigger would say)

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
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Pro-Coinage Senator Dies at 86

2008-07-11T13:23:00.000-07:00

Bloggers Note: Love him or hate him, he was a supporter of the coin collecting hobby.

- Jim

Pro-Coinage Senator Dies at 86

By David L. Ganz, Numismatic News
July 10, 2008

Jesse Helms, the five-term iconoclast senator from North Carolina who earned the sobriquet "Senator No" died on July 4 in his native Raleigh, N.C. He was 86 years of age and had been in ill health since his decision to decline re-election in 2002.

Helms was known for often saying "yes" to numismatics. He had a surprisingly active career involving numismatics, especially gold and commemorative coinage. A listing of his numismatic-sponsored legislation takes up 11 pages of text and almost four thousand words of explanation.

Full Article Here

TTFN, Ta-Ta-For-Now (as Tigger would say)

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA ANS ACCG

My Ebay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

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Being The "Ancient And Foreign Guy" At A Small Show

2008-06-27T12:25:00.000-07:00

It had been a few years since I had done a show. I had made my annual pilgrimage to the CICF the last several years to buy ancient and world ('foreign' to non-world collectors) coins but had not done a table myself for several years. It was fun. I did a table in Rhinelander, Wisconsin (a lazy hours drive from my home) and it was profitable despite the lack of any serious ancient coin collectors at the show.

Taking a cue from my friend Zach Beasley, I had a 'pick bin' of inexpensive Judaean Widows Mites. I also had some fun, inexpensive flashy coins (the kind kids like) from the Middle East and a pretty display case of inexpensive Roman and Greek Silver - almost nothing over $100.

The strategy worked! I could not boast as any other dealers did of selling an expensive 1909-S VDB or some juicy slabbed silver dollar but I persuaded a number of people to step out of their comfort zone of US, Canadian and Euro type coins and to buy something different than what they are used to. I was a little disappointed I did not bring any Canadian silver dollars with me but other than that I came home richer than I thought I would and the paltry amount of US coins I did bring (as a safety net) made up only 20% of what I sold that day. 80% of what I sold was ancient or world coinage. This was especially good as there were well under 50 tables at the show and it was held in a relatively small town.

Just For Fun - Etymology Of Penny And Dime

2008-06-12T11:51:00.000-07:00

Greetings fellow coin geeks,

OK - this is a little sexy but, it is basically PG, OK? But - you have to watch it if you you are a guy, collect coins and have a pulse:

Who knew learning could be so stimulating?

Jim

Fonts And Coins

2008-06-10T02:21:00.000-07:00

As you may know, doing real justice to a coin description can be challenging. It can also be expensive: 1) Set of RIC (Roman Imperial Coins) about $1000 to $1500, 2) Set of Sear's Greek, Roman, Greek Imperial and Byzantine coin books $350 to $500, 3) Full set of Krause-Mishler (for World Coins) $250 - $400. Then to give proper weight you need a jeweler's scale, price will range with quality, I bought a JS-50X a few years back for $50, now cheap Chinese copies can be had for about $20 and less but there is no guarantee of quality or longevity. My scale has been going strong since 2000. for measuring diameter some people like to get a caliper - best buy is from Jerry Walker at Vcoins for $3.35 postpaid for a cheap but respectable plastic one. For the more finicky, you can buy a digital one for over $100 also on Vcoins. I personally use a regular ruler with a difference - it's a clear acrylic one so I can see the coin through the ruler itself.

But with all the things that cost money, some things are free - fonts. You can find fonts that look ROMAN, Greek and עברים and many other looks and languages like Chinese looking ones, Indian looking ones and Arab style ones.

For those who do not know how to add fonts, here is an easy font HTML page:

Annabella's HTML Help Fonts

At the bottom of my ebay "ME" Page is a list of most of the fonts I use in my listings - if you ever think they look wierd - you need to download the fonts! All the fonts are free to download from safe sites. No viruses, no malware.

Enjoy!

http://stores.ebay.com/Polymath-Numismatics-and-Etcetera

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

My Yahoo Profile
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Just For Fun - Coin Domino Video

2008-06-10T02:19:00.000-07:00

Greetings,

I'm pretty sick right now. My kids decided to "share" the bug they had with me so I'm too miserable to really rant about coins or politics but I found a cool video on youtube I thought my fellow coin geeks might enjoy. Without further ado:

Coin Prices - How Do You Price A Coin?

2008-06-10T02:14:00.000-07:00

When I started out as a coin dealer, I was desirous to know how I should price coins. I wondered if there was a trade secret. I knew that for American coin dealers, it was easy. You had "Red Book" (Retail) and "Blue Book" (Wholesale) and "Graysheet" which was sort of an up-to-the-minute price guide published weekly. For Ancient and World coins - the rules are not so cut and dry.

One friend, a long time seller, told me, "Mark everything up 100%..." I think that line was followed with the words "...or you will never eat." In the world of ancient coins, the books of David Sear are the most widely consulted. Since 2000, he has written several up to date guides on Roman Republican and Imperial coins but his books on Byzantine, Greek and Roman Provincial (Greek Imperial) are about 20 years out of date - that said, they are also the best general attribution, grade & price guides to those series out there.

There are a few books out there that are Roman coin price guides which are based upon actual realized prices but they tend to reflect prices paid in mainly European and large "High End" market auctions - little help for a person who wants to know what an EF Constantine GLORIA EXERCITVS bronze from Cyzicus is worth as opposed to an EF one from the London Mint. The RIC (Roman Imperial Coins) multivolume set has a rarity scale which is sometimes still correct but in many cases not. The series was done in the late 1800s and early 1900s primarily and with the advent of the internet, the fall of communism, the opening up of eastern block countries, etc., etc., there are just a lot more Late Roman bronzes and Ptolemaic bronzes and Seleukid bronzes and and and... well, some coins just are not as "rare" as they used to be.

In a sense, source country wholesalers set the base price and it goes up and up from there. Your average American, Canadian or European buyer does not want to buy 100, 200 or 500 antoninianii of Gordianus III just so he can only pay $12 each. Likewise he does not want to buy 200 Prutahs or 400 Nabataean bronzes so he can get the one coin coin he or she desires cheaply. There is also the question of overseas postage costs and risks with customs, postal theft, etc. When you send $300, $500, $1000, $5000 overseas - it requires quite a bit of trust and nerve.

So what goes into a coin's price? Well, some think it is just what a price guide says plus postage, to them I can only reply, "Hahahahahahaha!" somewhat maniacally. No, not quite. If I buy a group of coins for $10 each, you are not going to acquire them for $12 each. Since I fully document each coin with it's size, weight, grade, catalog number, related history, details including defects, rarity (or lack thereof) and any other pertinent information, you are paying for my time. You pay at least $5.15 (probably more) an hour for a kid to flip your burgers and flash fry your fries - what is the time of a person who can read classical/foreign languages and who owns (has their $$$ invested in) expensive reference books worth? $5 an hour? $10 an hour? $20 an hour?

Some sellers photograph their own coins, others send the coins out and pay someone else to do that. Either way the seller either expends his/her own time or pays another to do it for them. Then there is the time to create a listing. Whether it is on a self published website, Vcoins© or eBay©, it still takes time. It can be especially time consuming if the seller takes the time to type out legends rendered in Greek, Hebrew or some other font using a foreign character set. Also, what is it worth to you to have the legends properly translated?

Some people have jumped in with both feet, determined to sell ancient coins but also determined to "not buy any pricey books". They say they will just use the web. OK, but what if the web contains errors? In my early days of collecting I recall a group of ancient coin people who commented on errors in Sear, errors in Van Meter, errors in RIC... I thought, "Who are these know-it-alls?" "How do they know all this?" Then over time I began to find them and note them myself. Further on I noted errors on websites. Wildwinds provides a great service but it does not take too long to find coins improperly attributed there. Often they are "close" errors like someone mistaking an Alpha for a Delta on a Late Roman bronze or it is an error of replication. Drachms of Azes I and II are indistiguishable to someone unfamiliar with the series and there were few online references and books were hard to come by so quite a few are attributed "Mitch 2418" because one collector who had Mitchiner put up a website with a nice picture of the common Azes II drachm and now, regardless of the control marks, mint marks, there are people selling drachms of Azes I and II advertized as Azes II Mitch 2418.

The lesson - BUY THE BOOK BEFORE YOU ATTRIBUTE THE COIN! Or at least buy from the seller who owns the book. Interesting enough, some dealers play an attribution game in reverse. They only own Sear's books, Sear quotes other references like RIC, BMC or Cohen. They know a lot of collctors own Sear's books so they quote the reference within Sear from RIC or BMC or some other reference that a casual collector is less likely to own, thus hiding the catalog value (at least according to Sear) from the buyer. Clever, but what if the reference is a mistake? OR what if, as is the case with Roman silver coins that it is a variety within RSC (Roman Silver Coins) for a certain type? You could have a silver denarius of Severus Alexander with an Annona reverse with or without a modius at Annona's feet. Did the dealer double check the BMC, RIC, RSC or Cohen reference to make sure it was correct? Before I had RIC, I just posted the Sear number alone. I did not want the disectors of reference errors to be picking apart my listings on ebay with elitist sniffs of "amateur" abounding on discussion lists.

Apart from all these considerations, I use a formula. I look at actual prices realized at places like coinarchives, wildwinds, CNG, old auction catalogues and fixed price lists and "asking prices" when and where available on eBay and Vcoins. I try to stick to examples of the same grade and/or quality. sometimes a certain coin, like a Bar Kochba middle bronze I just sold has only a few other coins out there in books or cyber space to be compared to. Here is where you have to make a determination and say to yourself, "What would I pay?" and "What would my friend _____ pay?"

Auctions get tricky - I once offered a coin for $25 and nobody bit. I reoffered it at $15 and it sold for... $30. How did that happen? Bidder competition. Both probably started wanting a bargain but once interested, neither wanted to let go.

In other cases, you find yourself up against a popular, reliable overseas seller who has decided rather than sell as a wholesaler, wishes to sell as a retailer but still sells much more cheaply than an American or European could afford to. What then? I don't think anybody knows the answer to that one but from watching the uptick in prices the answer seems to be to just keep marking upwards. Without a doubt, eBay has become a buyer's paradise in some respects because some dealers that would have been relegated to a strictly "wholesaler" status have now become direct sellers thanks to the convenience of the internet and the newfound reliability of international mail services. To take the bite out of higher postage or the risk of loss, sellers in source countries will still have prices lower than U.S. retail often but as confidence grows in their ability to get things delivered, their prices move upwards - and so does the prices here at home.

All that said, how does one price a coin? OK, lets take certain factors into account again:

Professionalism of seller, their knowledge.

Work time, taking photos, looking up things in books and/or online.

Purchase cost, what they paid for it.

Price guides / rarity guides.

Market prices for comparable coins.

This is what I wanted to touch on lastly, what did the coin go for in the open market? Books like those by Sear, Van Meter, Hendin, etc are good but in the final analysis, they are guides. I've seen Roman antoninianii that Sear priced around $25 USD sell for triple that amount and not just once or twice but regularly. Likewise, I've seen coins marked up into the hundreds in Hendin go for under $100. Van Meter's Value Band system is much like a daily horoscope, it is so broad it is almost never wrong. RIC rarity ratings don't get into dollar amounts so they can't be right or wrong in that respect.

But the MARKET is a great guide. It is really common sense. Some people use Wildwinds for that and I'd caution against that approach - at least narrowly. Wildwinds is a great tool but it is top heavy with eBay sales and many of them are documented from "Volume Sellers" who sell a handful of high grade coins and a truckload of lower grade coins. So the end result is if you use Wildwinds in a vaccuum, that is by itself, you will end up a frustrated buyer because you will never be paying enough for better coins. In it's inception, eBay also was used a as a bit of a dumping ground or as a baiting pool. Dealers took their junk box coins and liquidated them on eBay and put links to their personal websites where the "good stuff" was. This was a pretty efficient method for simultaneously dumping old junk and attracting new sales until eBay got wise to it and came up with their "no links" rule.

The aforementioned and a variety of other factors led to the creation of Vcoins. Vcoins is in many ways superior to eBay as a venue for purchasing coins. The ethics code makes buyers feel good about their purchase and the lack of being whittled on every sale makes sellers feel good. Vcoins has also become a useful tool for determining market value. If you search for a certain type of coin, you might get over 100 for sale for a really common coin and maybe 5 to 20 for a "rare" coin. You can check the prices and grades, average out the prices against an average of prices realized on Wildwinds and Coinarchives and come up with a realistic price for a certain coin of a certain grade. Hence:

Wildwinds
Coinarchives
Ebay sold coins
Ebay store coins
Reference books
Vcoins
Recent Auction Catalogues
+
__________
sum divided by number of comparable samples = Realistic Price

You may also wish to throw out highest and lowest prices that appear to be "anomalies". This is something we all have experienced if you have been collecting a few years. Back when California was experiencing rolling power blackouts a few years ago, I won some good VF and EF silver denarii for about $7 to $11 each from a popular eBay seller that would have normally sold them for at least $25 to $60 each. Likewise, if you are doing research to buy a common Ptolemy II tetradrachm and you mostly get hits for results in the $200 to $600 price range, you toss out the one being offered as "one of the finest known" for $12,500. It is just common sense. If you get a result for it for $95 or $125 and it seems to be in nice shape and the dealer has a decent return policy - BUY IT and don't wait to get luckier!

There is a certain school of thought that says, "I won't buy coins from anyone who won't offer them for a $0.99 opening bid." That person is not just interested in buying coins, nor are they concerned about paying a realistic price. That person either wants "something for nothing" or is hooked on the adrenaline rush of competitive bidding. There is great emotional satisfaction in finding out your sniper bid won by $0.01 or $1 more than the other guy. I recently auctioned off a AR tetradrachm that was lost by a penny. It is a great high for the winner and likely a great woe for the loser - but only momentarily. This is a trap. If this is the only way you buy, then you are either buying quite a few coins for more than they are worth or you may only be buying junk box coins. Now there are dealers who will put up a rare EF coin for $0.99 but these are sellers who are confident that on any given day of the week, they have hundreds of people regularly watching their auctions and these coins are usually put up for 10 days and usually close on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night when the greatest number of bidders are on eBay. It is also usually done by volume sellers who know that all their other coins are like tiny ads leading to the "big fish" that ultimately realizes the price the seller expected. A new seller will lose their shirt doing this sort of thing. because they do not have the following of return customers yet.

That is about all I have to say on this topic, just for review:

Wildwinds
Coinarchives
Ebay sold coins
Ebay store coins
Reference books
Vcoins
Recent Auction Catalogues
+
__________
sum divided by number of comparable samples = realistic price

Happy Hunting!

Jim McGarigle
Polymath Numismatics
ANA, ANS, ACCG

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